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An eleventh-degree kinship

Posted Over 1 Year ago by chiarizio

What would you call your:
Parent’s parent’s sibling’s child’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s parent’s sibling’s child’s child?
Abe’s father Bob’s father Charlie’s brother Dave’s son Eddie’s wife Flo’s brother Gary’s wife Helen’s father Ike’s brother John’s son Kyle’s son Larry?

Charlie is Abe’s grandpa
Dave is Abe’s granduncle
Eddie is Abe’s first-cousin-once-removed (since he’s Bob’s cousin)
Flo is Bob’s cousin-in-law, or at least she’s Dave’s daughter-in-law
Gary is Eddie’s brother-in-law
Helen is Flo’s sister-in-law
Is Helen Eddie’s sister-in-law?
Ike is Gary’s father-in-law
John is Helen’s uncle
Does that make John be Gary’s uncle-in-law?
Kyle is Helen’s cousin
Does that make Kyle be Gary’s cousin-in-law?
And Larry is Helen’s first-cousin-once-removed.

So there are several acceptable fourth- and third-degree English kinterms in this chain; (like Albert to Eddie and Helen to Larry);
and also several quasi-acceptable semi-questionable fifth- and fourth-degree relationships: (like Eddie to Helen).

But would anyone consider Abe and Larry to be affine relatives?

They are each other’s cousin’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s cousin, to stretch the term “cousin”.

Does your cousin’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse count as a relative?
(Perhaps equivalently: does your spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s cousin count as a relative?)

If not in English; in any other language you know?

There are 5 Replies

DarkHelmet, that response seemed a bit rude, so I've tagged it.

Feel free to challenge this if I misinterpreted what you were saying.

Parent’s parent’s sibling’s child’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s parent’s sibling’s child’s child?

As for this example, Chiarizio, distant cousins for sure, but technically no blood relation because it's a spouse's sibling's family at the 6th point there.

My great great great great... some number of great's - uncle is the founder of the college I went to.

... But no blood relation because it's my mother's father's brother's spouse's some-number-of-greats uncle. lol

But my second (or are they third?) cousins are directly related to him so it was a legacy college for all of them which was why I went, too.

¤¤♅êîrÐ Øccu®@n瀤¤

Over 1 Year ago
Weird Occurance

Yes, it’s a collateral relative’s affine relative’s affine relative’s collateral relative.
No common blood at all, or at least none that can be proven by the data given.
I think my parents might have been related this way before they married. If so I’m pretty sure I was an adult before they found out!

I doubt any English phrase with this meaning could be constructed from fewer than three component kinterms.
If anyone wants to try to do it in three or fewer I’d be pleased to see your attempt!

Over 1 Year ago

Simpler and clearer questions:

  • Is your cousin’s cousin related to you? If so how? They’re unlikely to be a blood-relative.

  • Is your in-law’s in-law related to you? If so how? Would you consider them an affine relative, or not?

  • How about your cousin’s in-law or your in-law’s cousin?


    These questions likely have different answers depending where you live or what language you speak.

  • Over 1 Year ago

    Is your in-law’s in-law related to you? If so how? Would you consider them an affine relative, or not?

    Of all 3, this is the one I'd say yes to.
    Because I actually feel like this one has a familial impact on one's life.

    I feel like once you get into cousins-of-cousins, they're people you see maybe once a year or every few years at the huge family reunions, but you don't really know them and don't even know how you're related to them without putting thought into it.

    For instance, my first cousin (who's close to me in age, and who I spent a great deal of my childhood feeling close to) has an older step-sister from her father's previous marriage.
    They've become incredibly close over the years.

    But I don't see any familial connection between myself and that lady.

    ... But curiously:

    How about your cousin’s in-law or your in-law’s cousin?

    I think this one would depend on how close my one day partner-to-be is close to his cousins. Do I meet them? Have any contact with me? It's easier to believe I'd see them as dear friends if they're close, as opposed to as relatives.

    If I can't even see my first cousin's step-sister as a relative, Idk if I'd see this as family, either. Wouldn't it depend on:
    1) your partner's closeness to their cousins
    2) how welcome you are into the family upon marriage

    Because we're talking about non-blood-bonds and non-immediate familial impact, here, which is where it gets a bit weird.

    ¤¤♅êîrÐ Øccu®@n瀤¤

    Over 1 Year ago
    Weird Occurance

    @Weird Occ:
    It sounds like our experiences are similar.
    I don’t really know what/who counts as family or as kin.

    In classificatory-kinship societies that practice a prescriptive marriage system, everyone in the society is kin to everyone else there.

    In some if not most other societies, kinship eventually “runs out”. That is, our kin’s kin may not be our own kin. I and someone else might both be kin to some other individual without being kin to each other.

    I was curious whether anyone on the board knows any language or culture in which such relationships are commonly recognized or have a term for them. Conlangs and concultures are welcome too; I was just going for the Real Life examples first, if there are any.


    Thanks for yours!

    Over 1 Year ago

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