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My general questioning about being trans and stuff

Posted 10 Months ago by Grey Ech--. --- -.. ..-. --- .-. ... .- -.- . -.el

As I mentioned in a previous thread in this sub-forum, I'm making this thread. But because I can't be too careful with what people think clearly, this thread isn't at all related to anything other than when I said:

Note: I don't currently fall into lgbtq to my current knowledge. I have been questioning one thing though (may or may not make a thread on that soon). I'm just speaking from my own perspective.


Want to be really clear about that.

I've been planning this thread since before I took a bit of a break here, and for various reasons I feel I shouldn't even make this thread but fug it. Stuff's fugged anyway. I will say, I'm not a good representation of anything so don't judge anything just by me existing the way I am please. Not the best time to say this probably, but know that I am not a good representative for anything and nothing should be judged just by me. I'm not sure if there would ever be a good time regardless so. At this point I doubt it'll be much of an issue as I think most people have already for various reasons made up their mind on the subject, but just in case.

Since my discord name is already mentioned on here, I will say it was presented to me as a feminine version of "Mcedge" applied to me by someone else which long story short I used in part to distance myself from my "Mcedge" name elsewhere (although maybe that was a pointless endeavor), not necessarily for any gender reasons, however the name has grown on me in general anyway. I like it.

I like think of myself as a feminine looking guy regardless of if that's reality and since I can remember I've compared how I look to females rather than males. However, I question sometimes if it's more than that and if I'm possibly trans or nonbinary. The former, I personally feel like even if I started to embrace that would possibly fuck my life up in ways beyond my control if I committed to it and I'm not sure I see that situation changing. The latter... not to invalidate anyone who identifies as nonbinary, they are valid but for me personally I don't feel like that would do anything for me. The thing is, to me I'm not sure gender expression matters to me much beyond the physical or if I could get much out of it. To me, it feels like I could do anything I'd want to in that regard while identifying still as a male anyway and without adding more mental complications to myself. This tends to mean that when I question my gender, I'm really questioning if I am or should be just a transwoman. Not just plain one way or the other seems like a mental weight I don't need and doesn't seem worth it to me. Yet, that poses the issue of if I really want to do away with more of my "maleness" which I'm also not even sure I want. There's also the possibility in my mind that this won't fix anything and might actually make things worse for me. That's often how I feel about questioning actually, in the end I feel I must simply bury it because thinking about it is only going to cause me problems and it often does.

As for the possible reasons I question in the first place, well I'd rather not get too deep into that. I'll mention some but if I get too much into it It'd open a giant can of worms and also make this thread much longer. But I will say it's not new or coming from anyone in particular. I had a longer than usual period of questioning more recently which is why this is coming up at all but.

So, at least for how I feel now it would either be cis or plain trans, and aside from the latter only being down to questioning as far as I know, I'm not sure if I want to give up my male "side" either.

I don't want to get into too many details, but while I haven't questioned this too much I also feel like even if I came to the conclusion that I am trans, it would result in either me being possibly permanently closeted about it (which I imagine would be even more stressful with that specifically in my mind) or I'd be open about it and potentially lose respect from people that are basically essential to my literal survival currently. This, however has recently made me question if the reason why I don't question it much is for that reason, because I've long had the mentality that it is not worth thinking about.

When the thought crossed my mind and I started to more understand that being trans is a thing, I for myself shrugged it off because while I certainly never considered myself very masculine or whatever, I felt I had a sort of "duty" to being male. Which didn't extend to anyone else but me.

I've also long on and off been interested in things long considered "female" example: making your nails pink or wearing a dress.

It does not mean anything by itself in my opinion as I have said before, but I also almost always choose to play as female characters in games. I'd just brush this off as normal were I only playing normal games and did I not play around with the idea quite a bit in vr even. Long weird story short, in some way the idea of being female interests me. However... I can't be sure it doesn't go beyond that, "crossdreaming" may be an acceptable term for where it doesn't go beyond that. Though, I was already aware that I like the idea of being female before this.

Another thing I noticed is, when given options for pronouns say, in a discord server I once picked "any pronouns" (which was specifically separate from non-binary) because I didn't mind what people call me I guess provided they don't insist on what I likely am as a whole. I also possibly liked it because I don't necessarily like how hard it has become to keep up with people's pronouns, though I totally get why it has become that way. It can be really hard for a person to adapt when they've known a person by another pronoun their whole life and if I ever decide something about myself, even if it's just that I'm flat out trans female, I don't want to be particularly insistent on it. This is speaking for how I feel and no one else though and it's not saying anyone else is doing anything wrong with how they handle pronouns, I'm just saying how I feel about it.

Also, I don't much care for "egghunting" but it has happened to me a lot. Even as I've already established I don't care for it which happens even from those I consider close. An egg being someone who doesn't know or doesn't want to admit they're trans yet, implying people someone may try to point it out to them. However, since this whole thread is basically about it and I'm not barring advice (I'm not expecting it either) it's fine here. However, I also welcome anyone saying the reverse too. In both cases provided no one's just being rude about it.

There's probably so much more I could say about this, but I had a lot of this already typed up from like weeks ago and I'm a bit tired and for some reason I just feel like getting this out there already. If there's any questions for me don't hesitate to ask.

There are 12 Replies


Before I read most of your post, I just want to say that no-one else gets to decide for you what your identity is. This should be a journey of self-discovery - it is about you and your experiences and about if and how you choose to communicate those experiences. With that being said, I will share my thoughts on this, and I apologize in advance if it seems overbearing. Take care of yourself first, before even considering what I say about anything.

I will say, I'm not a good representation of anything so don't judge anything just by me existing the way I am please. Not the best time to say this probably, but know that I am not a good representative for anything and nothing should be judged just by me.


No-one is responsible for you merely on account of happening to share some aspect of their experience with you, nor are you necessarily responsible for anyone else that happens to share some aspect of your experience. We are individuals, and we will continue to be so no matter what you discover about yourself.

I like think of myself as a feminine looking guy regardless of if that's reality and since I can remember I've compared how I look to females rather than males. However, I question sometimes if it's more than that and if I'm possibly trans or nonbinary.


I don't think it's very common for cis guys to compare themselves to women.

One of the things that I found out when I was researching trans theory in preparation for making my post was that cishet people usually do not question or even think about their identity at all, which was a shock to me. The overwhelming normative narratives in our culture create a context where questioning your identity can be significant indication that you are not cishet.

Is this meaningful in your case? I don't know. You know better than I do.

The former, I personally feel like even if I started to embrace that would possibly fuck my life up in ways beyond my control if I committed to it and I'm not sure I see that situation changing.


Even if you do find out that you are trans, that does not indicate exactly what transitioning would mean for you, or even if you are going to decide to transition. It is most definitely not the case that there is a monolithic trans regimen that you would have to abide by. Again, this is about self-discovery - do what is right for you.

There's also the possibility in my mind that this won't fix anything and might actually make things worse for me. That's often how I feel about questioning actually, in the end I feel I must simply bury it because thinking about it is only going to cause me problems and it often does.


I don't think that just thinking about this causes problems. I think that obsessing over it, or having unfulfilled desires, or experiencing invalidation, etc. causes problems.

Something that I an absolutely sure of is that repression causes problems. Because even if you find out that there's something going on with you and your identity, not knowing about it is not going to fix any problems. In my experience, that just makes the suffering vague and incomprehensible. For me, even just realizing something like this is a huge relief, before even taking action to assuage it.

But I will say it's not new or coming from anyone in particular. I had a longer than usual period of questioning more recently which is why this is coming up at all but.


If the roots of your questioning are long-reaching, that can be another indicator that you are not totally cishet.

So, at least for how I feel now it would either be cis or plain trans, and aside from the latter only being down to questioning as far as I know, I'm not sure if I want to give up my male "side" either.


This is a really complicated line of thought, and I'm not going to tell you that it doesn't make sense. If you want to be either a man or a woman, that is for you to decide. With that being said, I think that it would be helpful for you to take stock of what being a man or being a woman really means.

I don't want to get into too many details, but while I haven't questioned this too much I also feel like even if I came to the conclusion that I am trans, it would result in either me being possibly permanently closeted about it (which I imagine would be even more stressful with that specifically in my mind) or I'd be open about it and potentially lose respect from people that are basically essential to my literal survival currently.


Survival comes first. Always. Take care of yourself, please.

In terms of being closeted: this is also complicated as hell, but keep in mind that a person doesn't have to be totally out or totally closeted. Most LGBT people, from what I understand, are actually somewhere between, where they are closeted in certain contexts and out in others. This is definitely the case for me. Some of my closest friends do not really know what's going on with me. I'm not out in my workplace. But even then, knowing who I am and finding the few contexts in which I'm able to fulfill that part of myself is immensely relieving and rewarding. For some people, this means only in online contexts. For some people, it means only in their own home. For some, only at a certain hangout or in a certain subculture.

It is brutal and unfair that people face conditions where they have to weigh these options. But many find a way to express who they are even in poor conditions. As I said, though, survival comes first. Don't jeopardize yourself.

This, however has recently made me question if the reason why I don't question it much is for that reason, because I've long had the mentality that it is not worth thinking about.


The conditions that a person is in can absolutely inform their mindset about even something as personal as their gender or sexual identity. I was unironically hitting on guys in college and I still didn't have the wherewithal to consider what this meant for my supposed cishet-ness. It took literal years of things like this before I actually thought about how I would communicate this and realized "oh, wow, I'm bisexual".

I had no dependable access to LGBT narratives, and I was surrounded by overwhelming and unbelievably unhelpful cishet-normative silence.

I've also long on and off been interested in things long considered "female" example: making your nails pink or wearing a dress.


These things may be considered "feminine" by others. What really matters is if you consider them to be for you.

It does not mean anything by itself in my opinion as I have said before, but I also almost always choose to play as female characters in games. I'd just brush this off as normal were I only playing normal games and did I not play around with the idea quite a bit in vr even. Long weird story short, in some way the idea of being female interests me. However... I can't be sure it doesn't go beyond that, "crossdreaming" may be an acceptable term for where it doesn't go beyond that. Though, I was already aware that I like the idea of being female before this.


I experience something similar. Not the same, but similar.

It can be really hard for a person to adapt when they've known a person by another pronoun their whole life and if I ever decide something about myself, even if it's just that I'm flat out trans female, I don't want to be particularly insistent on it. This is speaking for how I feel and no one else though and it's not saying anyone else is doing anything wrong with how they handle pronouns, I'm just saying how I feel about it.


This is totally understandable! If pronouns aren't that big of a deal for you, then that's fine. I'm not super hung up on pronouns, either. I understand when some people are, and I respect that, because it means something to them. But personally, even though I prefer they/them, I understand it if someone says he/him. (I wouldn't necessarily hate it if someone called me she/her either, but I don't identify as a woman either.)

Also, I don't much care for "egghunting" but it has happened to me a lot. Even as I've already established I don't care for it which happens even from those I consider close. An egg being someone who doesn't know or doesn't want to admit they're trans yet, implying people someone may try to point it out to them.


Among the more responsible front of queer advocates I've seen, there seems to be, for want of a better metaphor, a rule much like the Prime Directive from Star Trek: to not interfere with the natural development of another person's identity. There are a lot of unhelpful thought processes, especially among younger queer people, related to impulses like winning allies and securing social groups and gaining woke credit or whatever. It's not good for anyone when this happens - not even good for the queer community. The health of the community, as I've tried to hammer home through this entire post, is based on people being able to be themselves, whatever that turns out to be. Providing help when asked for is wonderful, trying to crack eggs is not - especially since not everyone is an egg.

With that being said, and with the huge caveat that I do not know the context of your experiences with being egghunted: if multiple different people are apparently clueing in on you being trans, that might be significant. It also might not be. The only person who can determine that is you.

There's probably so much more I could say about this, but I had a lot of this already typed up from like weeks ago and I'm a bit tired and for some reason I just feel like getting this out there already. If there's any questions for me don't hesitate to ask.


Thank you so much for sharing. No matter what comes of this, being able to be open, even a moderate amount, is a big thing. Some people never even get to this point. Take as much time as you need to think through everything - or not think, if you just need rest. As I indicated when this forum was first made, I will try to be here for everyone when they need it. What that means right now is up to you.

10 Months ago
galbraith

I cannot give as good a reply (as I think Galbraith gave you) but I will say that it sounds like you have a journey ahead of you; good luck with it and thank you for sharing.

¤LðŗРУŋįd@¤

10 Months ago
Lord Denida

being egghunted definitely didn't help me come out. what did was when cool and normal-seeming people asked me what my pronouns were, and when I met a girl who was, I guess, shaped more or less like me but was undeniably seen as a woman. she didn't, according to my very primitive understanding of the concept, "pass", and that didn't matter; what mattered was that she was pretty and everyone knew she wasn't a boy. that made me feel like it was possible. and of course, understanding that I no longer wanted any future where I was a man.

for want of a better metaphor, a rule much like the Prime Directive from Star Trek: to not interfere with the natural development of another person's identity


The one I like is "the Masquerade." In Vampire, you can't just go around accosting and converting people; there's rules, and those serve to keep everyone a little safer (from the violence of the living / the military-sissy-industrial-complex).

A thing that's very important to understand is that being trans will absolutely not cure someone's depression, or any of the maladaptive coping mechanisms they developed over their lifetime. That takes exactly as much work as it does for cis people, and one may well find that cis people are *less* forgiving of those mechanisms, not more.

10 Months ago
flying (b)aeris

First of all, thank you for sharing your journey of self-discovering, Grey. That took some confidence and I'm happy for you.

I believe Aeris and galbraith have provided important context regarding their experiences and how they can relate to you, but I'd like to provide another perspective. This is by no means an attempt to invalidate anyone's perspectives or experiences, but it's my personal experience; do with it what you will.

I'm a cis female, but am a lot less feminine than most of the girls I've known. Most of my cosplays are male characters, most of my internet identities have been male or unisex, and I play video games as male characters. I've been mistaken for a guy before when I had my hair cut short and was dressed in more masculine clothing. I've gotten into fistfights in high school and am not into traditionally-female activities. But - I'm comfortable being female, even if I'm not feminine. I don't have a deep-seated discomfort with my identity. I've spent time questioning what I'd do if I could be a guy for a week or a month or something, but it's not some pressing, pervasive thought that I need to change genders.

From what I've personally come to understand, gender exists on a spectrum and you can express your gender differently. You can be an effeminate male or a more masculine female, but if you're comfortable with your own gender-identity (whatever it may be), you may still be cis. A trans woman I knew put it that, she knew she was trans from very early in her childhood because always just felt wrong or off, like she wasn't right. I can't say this thought process and experience is the same for every trans individual, but it was something that stood out to me as a difference from my own experience.

Grey, where you said you like more traditionally / socially female things, but don't want to abandon your male-side stood out to me as more similar to my own experience, so I felt the need to comment with my perspective and experience to offer it as something you can think about.

However, whatever you feel is valid. Whatever you experience is valid and I think you're the best arbiter to understand what makes you feel most comfortable in your skin. This goes for everyone.

¤¤♅êîrÐ Øccu®@n瀤¤

10 Months ago
Weird Occurance

cishet people usually do not question or even think about their identity at all, which was a shock to me.


Privilege of being "normal," babyyyy. Designed the world so we don't have to think about it, but anyone outside those normal boxes did and would feel creeping self-doubt and shame. Gotta love it. (For clarification: you do not need to love it. I'm being sarcastic in how I present the point that cishet folks have a luxury of living in a world designed for them so there's rarely a reason to think about it.)

10 Months ago
Jet Presto

Cis male here, with a rather strong "feminine side" that's in no danger of being suppressed. Both "masculine" and "feminine" strengths are valuable and should be cultivated regardless of one's gender.

Cultural gender norms are ultimately arbitrary. For example, here's a painting of a normal boy in 1840:


i guess being able to afford a personal painter would make your kid less normal but w/e

We live in a consumerist culture where identity is important, as it makes you part of a narrow target market that you can then be shamed into belonging to. In reality, there's not a lot of actual difference between different sexes besides physical and hormonal characteristics. Additionally, there's a huge variety in people that belong to the same "gender". Labels like "homosexual" and "heterosexual" don't even really make sense since people have wildly different sexual/romantic preferences.

Ultimately, Identity fails to label reality. It does however create this excellent framework for shame/confusion/feeling like you have to "make a choice", when in reality what's important is being comfortable with yourself and expressing what you are in whatever way makes the most sense to you.

10 Months ago
Xhin
Sky's the limit

Ultimately, Identity fails to label reality.


A complicated concept that I have tried, usually to no avail, to explain to multiple people. Models are inherently inaccurate; sometimes, we can get close enough to convey meaning, but this does not mean that one is the other. Even something as nominally non-committal as "non-binary" is shaped by the context and culture it exists in - it is an element in a narrative, an interpretation, a signifier of varied use, not the thing which is referenced.

However, this addresses the phenomenal and not the experiential. But I'm tired and I'm going to go to bed rather than finish that thought.

10 Months ago
galbraith

Hey thanks for all the replies, and sorry I only felt like saying anything at all now. And also that I don't have much to say to all of this, but I have read it all and I appreciate it. One reason I guess I don't want to try to reply is because I feel like I'll start feeling like I should reply to all and another is just I kinda got uncomfortable talking about it extensively again.

And also the reasons why I mentioned some things even though of course I don't see them as necessarily meaning one is trans or even is a sign at all necessarily, is because I was just sorta trying to lay it all on the table but I guess deep down I know this is really just all up to me at the end of the day, and me personally I'm not sure I'd ever be able to make my my mind definitively so this was alongside trying to be be open with some of my lines of thought, also probably kind of hoping someone elses perspective may prevent me from ever going back to questioning yet again and I can leave the the question in the dust entirely but I'm not sure that can entirely happen.

I feel like all of this can be very confusing when given serious thought, at least for me if for now other reason I'm not entirely sure that "me" is even consistent enough to be comfortable one way or the other all the time, yet at the same time my mind feels like only one or the other works for me.

10 Months ago
Grey Echelon

You don't have to apologize for taking time to respond. It is perfectly fine to take this at your own pace. In fact, if other people's discussion of this becomes too uncomfortable to see or if you just feel like there's too much piling up in this thread, let us know. This should be a safe and comfortable place for someone to express themselves and not feel like the conversation is running away from them or that they're obligated to respond to everyone. Whatever you need - just let us know.

10 Months ago
galbraith

It's all good here I think, just was a temporary me problem and initially being afraid of making another textwall about this. Thanks though.

10 Months ago
Grey Echelon

Grey, no need to worry about sharing text walls and thoughts and ideas. We’re all here to support each other.

¤¤♅êîrÐ Øccu®@n瀤¤

10 Months ago
Weird Occurance

The need for Transgenderism and gender identity in general is society's fault anyway. Due to our advanced brains and the influence of religion and culture, humans are the only species that has forced gender stereotypes upon itself and decided what attributes connects to which genders. The only real difference in gender is biological sexual organs and slight physical and mental differences left over from our more feral days. These differences, with men being slightly stronger and women being slightly more creative and compassionate, are irrelevant in the way we live, and has already made progress in evolving out.

As for being transgender and switching genders, I have no issue with it. Whatever makes it easiest and most comfortable to be one's self. GE, I don't care if you see yourself as male, female, bigender, agender, or even some third alien gender. The important thing is, that you never stop being Grey, whatever that means to YOU.

10 Months ago
Aurelian
Fire Lion
Thunder Lion

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