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predictions

Posted Over 1 Year ago by Smiling Apple

Not as sure about this election as I was about the last one. I think it will be a lot closer than the polls suggest, but I think Trump Biden will win it (just) and lose win the popular vote (again).

I just don't see the necessary momentum behind Biden, and I don't think enough of those who respond in polls that they prefer him to Trump will actually go out and vote for him. Whereas Trump supporters seem to be a lot more motivated.

What do you think will happen?

There are 69 Replies


Same as before: Trump wins and most sane people lose but now more chaos breaks out too.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

[scrubbed]

Over 1 Year ago
[scrubbed]

In absence of voter fraud, Trump will win, Republicans will expand their lead in the Senate, and make significant gains in the house. If the Democrats successfully steal the election, then either they will continue cheating for the rest of American history, essentially making this a one party state where elections are basically ceremonial in nature, and if not they will get smashed in 2022 and 2024, possibly resulting in another 2016 scenario where Republicans will control every branch of the federal government in 2025.

Over 1 Year ago
Dr. Doom

@Doom why are fraud and stealing the only ways Trump can lose the election?

Over 1 Year ago
Vandy

Democrats will get the most votes, as they always do, first off. Too bad we can't just stop there.

With voter turnout the highest its been in the last 50 years, with 20 million more people expected to cast votes than they did in 2016, Democrats are all but assured to win the electoral college too.

Despite how Smiling Apple "feels" about Biden's momentum, his lead has only widened over the last month or so when people like Dr. Doom were "confident" that things would narrow.

That being said, Trump and his Republican enablers are hoping to claim victory early, before all the ballots can be counted (mail-in ballots favor Democrats, and there are tons of them this year), and then claim voter fraud and other lies once things shift. Pennsylvania and a couple other states could potentially see this happen.

However, Trump could lose Florida or Georgia early on tonight, which would assure his loss, and then go on to lose the midwest and maybe even Montana or Iowa too, which would really seal the deal.

Over 1 Year ago
Agis

Narrow Biden victory in the EC, probably some sporadic court challenges that fail to change the election.

Dems take the senate but don't get a supermajority.

Over 1 Year ago
Count Dooku

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Over 1 Year ago
Xhin
Sky's the limit

In absence of voter fraud, Trump will win, Republicans will expand their lead in the Senate, and make significant gains in the house.

I have no idea why people think he absolutely will win, I get why they think he will win but this "Trump wins or it's fraud" thing and the same thing with republicans is ridiculous.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

Also want to say that this prediction is less based on anything and it's more just like an inclination partially due to my more pessimistic outlook in recent times. So ya, I'll be perfectly fine being wrong if I am. Not going to get into all of the reasons why I think this possibility is still very possible in detail, but I think it is. Things like voter turnout, intimidation, mail fuckery and other things all play a role.

In 2016 it was a gut feeling that Trump was gonna win.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

I think michigan is going to determine the election -- not in the sense of electoral vote contribution but in the sense of the way it swings matching what the election itself is like.

Over 1 Year ago
Xhin
Sky's the limit

I am not a person with a particularly sophisticated sense of intuition, and so I can only look at the numbers and infer from there. Tonight is likely to be sobering for those still certain that Trump's 2016 victory was proof that the polls were "wrong". Some of what was extrapolated from those numbers was wrong, but nevertheless there was no lie that he had a narrow path to victory and managed to just barely meet it. This year he also has a narrow (if not narrower) path to victory, and one that probably does not realistically include Wisconsin or Michigan. Fortunately for him Pennsylvania is easier to get, but it is still not likely. Without that, (or Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, possibly Texas) he's sunk.

Democrats will keep the house and will probably take the Senate as well. Other outcomes may occur, but to assume that one will is wishful thinking.

Over 1 Year ago
Famov

Dems will almost certainly take the house and senate ya. Less certain about the presidential aspect.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

Tonight is likely to be sobering for those still certain that Trump's 2016 victory was proof that the polls were "wrong". Some of what was extrapolated from those numbers was wrong, but nevertheless there was no lie that he had a narrow path to victory and managed to just barely meet it.

It is the most frustrating thing in the world trying to explain this to people. I never even took a stats class, but it is easy enough for a layman to understand.

I also think an often unmentioned factor is that, despite the "Sleepy Joe" rhetoric and insinuations that he is with the "radical left" (LOL), Joe Biden simply does not inspire the visceral hatred that Hillary Clinton did. He is not charismatic like Obama, but he is also not irresistibly loathsome to the extent that significant numbers of people are likely to vote for Trump specifically in defiance of him.

Over 1 Year ago
pacman

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Over 1 Year ago
[scrubbed]

I honestly don't know. Many were so confident Hillary would win. I can't say it's a lock for Biden at all.

Over 1 Year ago
ShadowFox08

With all of the election interference going on from both sides, it's impossible to tell which way the popular vote will go.

Over 1 Year ago
Axem Great Water

That’s Fivey Fox’s first emoji of the night. Fivey reports the ABC News projections with emojis if the projections diverge from our expectations based on our final forecast.

In this case, Fivey was surprised (:open_mouth:) by Trump’s win in Florida, which our forecast showed as “slightly favored” for Biden.

Just as a reminder, Fivey is an emotional fox. Fivey responds with a surprised emoji (:open_mouth:) if a candidate we listed as “slightly favored” loses a race, with a shocked emoji (:astonished:) if a candidate we have listed as “favored” loses a race, and with a mind blown emoji (:exploding_head:) if a candidate we have listed as “clearly favored” or “very likely” loses a race.

Over 1 Year ago
poptart!
 

It does not look good for Democrats.

Over 1 Year ago
eldin raigmore
 

It's looking like Biden is going to win and that "election fraud" is going to be the right's "Russiagate."

Trump ought to concede graciously. But I don't see any chance of that happening.

Tonight is likely to be sobering for those still certain that Trump's 2016 victory was proof that the polls were "wrong".

If there's one thing that's certain after this election, it's that pollsters should shut up shop.

Over 1 Year ago
Smiling Apple

It's looking like the Republicans are going to keep the senate deadlocked at least. Kamala Harris may have the privilege of being the first president in history with the power to decide a senate tiebreaker

Over 1 Year ago
Dr. Doom

If there's one thing that's certain after this election, it's that pollsters should shut up shop.

You know, it wouldn't be an election if I wasn't wrong about everything.

I wouldn't want to be a west coast Republican, but otherwise the blue wave is still less than advertised. Michigan just might end up with a Republican senator for the first time in a long time, and while it is easy to overestimate the value of that seat it still says something about the state and where it is likely headed in the years to come.

Then again, maybe John James is just a capable fundraiser and naturally more charismatic than Gary Peters. But compare that with recent electoral trends and it seems like that the Midwest is still undergoing something of a realignment. Put another way, and it is a grievous insult for me to say such a thing about my own people, but perhaps it really does turn out that we were all Ohio all along.



EDIT: Peters is in the lead again. It's astonishing how tight this race has been.

Over 1 Year ago
Famov

Even if Biden wins (which doesn't actually seem totally set in stone yet) this was still way too close. It very easily still could have gone the other way. And this is the preferred outcome short of Trump attempting a successful coup like he was very much implying last night or a 269 269 outcome with either of these outcomes leading to a still unlikely civil war and eventually a new election or something.

And I was still going to be angry no matter which shithead wins this but whatever I guess.

Also yes long live ohio.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

It's not set in stone yet, but Trump's path to winning (according to the current questionable numbers) will involve him flipping Nevada, Arizona (which has already been called but is the most likely state to be called incorrectly atm), and hold onto his three leads in PA, NC, and Georgia (which is likely). Hopefully the lawsuits and subsequent investigation will bring to light if there was any fraudulent activity (some of which some has been reported anecdotally.)

Over 1 Year ago
Dr. Doom

I should have said flipping Nevada OR Arizona.

Over 1 Year ago
Dr. Doom

Nevada also hasn't been called yet anywhere I've seen, only arizona has.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

Fox news got a ton of heat for calling AZ early. There was a video of a Sheriff in a Republican county telling people to use Sharpies to fill out their ballots, and later the ballots were discarded for not being in ball point pen.

There was also a suspicious ballot dump in Michigan early in the morning, where over 100,000 votes went just to Biden and nobody else.

They say that Trump actually ending up taking AZ, while less likely than so, is not out of the question despite the premature calls. I'm not holding my breath on Nevada, but we will actually see. It was very close in 2016, and it's less than 10,000 vote difference with 75 percent reported. Maybe Trump's stance on ending the COVID shutdowns will resonate with a disproportionate number of people in Reno and Las Vegas, whose economies are heavily dependent upon a number of "non-essential" businesses.

Over 1 Year ago
Dr. Doom

[scrubbed]

Over 1 Year ago
[scrubbed]

Biden won. PogU

Over 1 Year ago
Brandy

Reee there should have been a civil war instead to fight for our right to democracy and decency. But I guess maybe things will calm down and not be the worst after a while after probably a lot of violence from the angry right so at least this is maybe one step towards an end of crazy terrible bullshit but we still could have done so much better than Biden.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

Dude it's not like a Biden win is the end of history lol

(Won't lie though, he feels like end of life hospice care for America with his old age, soft voice and empty beady eyes)

Over 1 Year ago
pacman

Ya whatever I'll probably calm down and accept it I'm just talking shit and getting my frustration out. Not like I matter or any of this matters all that much in the grand scheme.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

Also in general we need to de-emphasize these stupid presidential elections as a giant spectacle and literally the only thing that matters in American politics. Stripping the executive branch of its insane amount of power not granted by the Constitution would be a good start. If any good comes out of the Trump presidency, it should be the realization that no one person or office should be granted so much damn power, both nationally and globally.

Over 1 Year ago
pacman

A Biden Presidency would literally be the first step towards the end of America, which we would all see within our lifetimes, if the democrats also flipped the Senate, which it is looking like Republicans are going to hold onto 51.

If Biden wins at this point, I'm going to be pretty confident in a 2022 and 24 Red Wave, like I noted in my first post. Midterms are typically bad for the incumbent, and considering how horrible the incumbent will be in 2022, I wouldn't be shocked if Republicans retake all three branches of government again by 2024.

Over 1 Year ago
Dr. Doom

The only way a Biden presidency could spell the end of America is by inspiring mentally ill fascists and QAnoners to action.

Over 1 Year ago
pacman

A Biden Presidency would literally be the first step towards the end of America, which we would all see within our lifetimes


wow, hopefully!

Over 1 Year ago
poptart!
 

Stripping the executive branch of its insane amount of power not granted by the Constitution would be a good start.

Wake me up when things like that miraculously happen.

A Biden Presidency would literally be the first step towards the end of America

Highly doubt it, but it would be a lot of bullshit just probably a bit less than with Trump.

If Biden wins at this point, I'm going to be pretty confident in a 2022 and 24 Red Wave

Ya probably.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

Wake me up with things like that miraculously happen.

Being asleep is part of the problem, no?

Over 1 Year ago
pacman

Being asleep is part of the problem, no?

It's a figure of speech, meaning it's not gonna happen probably.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

It's called "The American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. ;)

-George Carlin

Over 1 Year ago
Alan

Legit though, people were asleep and pacified as fuck by the post-9/11 fear and chaos when the president was given insane, unconstitutional powers to, uh, "fight against terrorism".

I actually think more people are aware and awake now about stuff like that than ever before, which gives me at least a little hope.

Over 1 Year ago
pacman

Carlin in the Trump era would be REALLY interesting lol

Over 1 Year ago
pacman

Hey Famov, would you do me a favor and predict Trump wins Georgia now?

Over 1 Year ago
Agis

Now now, I try to use my superpower responsibly.

Over 1 Year ago
Famov

Trump is probably gonna lose. But the amount of votes he's gotten despite his unpalatable personality, vulgarity, and generally brutish bully way of doing things shows that he understands working class american problems better than the democratic party does. The kind of people who support the democrats are elitists, artists, the rich, and people with interest in marijauna, lgbt stuff, black stuff, latinx stuff. The kind of people who support Trump are farmers, oil workers, fisherman, construction workers who live in the sub urbs. If the election was about who's the better dude than obviously Joe should win. But the results of this election, if they're a Joe Biden victory, are not going to make things better for working class Americans. Because the Democratic Party doesn't understand or care about working class Americans. And if you're poor and white you might as well be invisible to the democratic party. Trump deserves to lose, but the Dems did the bare minimum, and this election wasn't really democracy.

Nobody cares about Biden. You either Love Trump or Hate him. Those that love him despite his flaws love him because things were going good for them while he was in office. If Trump loses it just means more people were sick of him than the amount of people who love him. That's not democracy. The Dems should have picked an actual candidate; someone people can get passionate about who will work for them, not a walking sleepy skeleton who will pass the reigns off to Marxist Harris.



Over 1 Year ago
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

Absolute bullshit. Every section of the American working class votes Democrat to a fairly overwhelming extent except the white working class. Biden, apparently, didn't turn them off or offend their working class sensibilities. So is there something the non-white working class knows that the rest does not?

Over 1 Year ago
Just Because

You say "black stuff" like it is some kind of petty side issue. Something of that dismissive attitude almost certainly cost the Republicans the state of Georgia. I might as well complain that Republicans only care about all that weird, icky "rural stuff" and then wonder aloud why country folk might not like me.

I've spent quite a bit of time in Clayton County. And no, I don't just mean while changing planes at Atlanta's airport. The kind of people who supported Biden there are truck drivers, airport personnel, pastors, warehouse workers and security guards, janitors, convention center managers, MARTA transit workers, service workers, construction workers. The sorts of people who make a major metropolitan area function from day to day. The sorts of people who some in "Real America" have insisted are irredeemably lazy, drug-addicted, morally vacuous, murderous, genetically deficient, and unpatriotic.

Biden was not my first choice at all, but how is he less in touch with the working class than Trump? Democrats have major problems and I would prefer that they be obliterated in favor of a better party, sooner rather than later. But they are no more or less a "party of the elite" than Republicans are. That Democrats run a party that is voted for largely by petty, out of touch, elite coastal urbanites is a conservative talking point that needs to die. Now. Not least because it reveals that the people who utter it know nothing about the concerns of the normal people who tend to vote Democrat.

Over 1 Year ago
Just Because

Marxist Harris

Is anyone going to ever use this terminology correctly?

What do you think will happen?

Coming to this midway through, so benefit of some hindsight here - but my initial thoughts before the 3rd were of a close-run result, with probably Biden pipping it. I thought instinctively the polls were underestimating a lot of support in areas (for both camps). I can understand the usual explanation cleaving to "margin of error", but when it's this close, that still does not excuse polling performance.

Separately, what an absolute abysmal logistical situation you guys have going on over there, particularly as it relates to the physical counting itself. The fact that impartial election officials are drawn into these partisan complaints over process is another damning inditement of the US's approach to the GE. How many has the US done of these? Yet it remains a chaotic shambles!

On the obviously absurd claims of vote rigging; the Dems seem to have forgotten to rig the Senate run-offs in their single-mindedness to run away with the Presidential vote.

Over 1 Year ago
Arch
 

Marxist Harris


god i wish

Over 1 Year ago
poptart!
 

On the obviously absurd claims of vote rigging; the Dems seem to have forgotten to rig the Senate run-offs in their single-mindedness to run away with the Presidential vote.

Lol yeah, despite the orange buffoon likely being ousted, this was not exactly a great election for Democrats, even worse if you're a leftist. If there was rigging, it was the most incompetent, shortsighted rigging in history.

Conservatives got SCOTUS, which is more than they ever could have asked for. Between the court and McConnell's senate, they should be happy.

Over 1 Year ago
pacman

It was a very apt comparison for Famov to liken "the vote has been rigged" to "Russia stole the election." I was really hoping that the former wouldn't gain as much steam and staying power as the latter, but for now it seems to be happening.

The common thread between the two is that neither neoliberals nor Trumpists seem to have any faith in the idea that their fellow Americans can actually make their own independent choices. There just has to be some nefarious force or entity that is rigging things against them. "How could so many people actually like Trump! I don't understand my country anymore. Russia must have tricked them!" "How could so many of these votes against Trump just magically appear! Everyone I know loves Trump. It must be deep state fraud!"

Over 1 Year ago
Just Because

Ya the rigging bullshit is ridiculous and I can't stand that it's everywhere.

shows that he understands working class american problems better than the democratic party does.

The only thing shown is how obviously divided america is between two bad choices. Neither party by and large gives a shit about or will ever do much for the working class overall. There are some exceptions but Trump is not one. Take it from someone living in one of those counties that voted Trump.

Marxist Harris

If only. I don't even actually think she'll even get the chance to become president tbh. I think people underestimate Biden's overall health even for his age and the advanced healthcare a president would have access to.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

If there's one thing that's certain after this election, it's that pollsters should shut up shop.

One thing I want to say about this is that it definitely would not be the case if we voted based on popular vote rather than the electoral college. The polls were never wrong about who was more popular overall.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

All I'm saying is that America missed out on a great candidate like Yang as their democrat representative. For one, he can actually string a sentence together, which is something both Trump and Biden struggle with, and he seems to understand where the democrats go wrong.

Over 1 Year ago
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

Basically what I'm saying is that if Biden with dementia was capable of beating Trump, then anyone on the Dem side with a clean record was capable of beating him. So they could have picked someone a little more centrist and a little more mentally capable so that more people can have their problems dealt with. The Democrats only care about the cities and there are more people in cities than in rural areas so basically people in rural areas are slaves to the majority. Even though they have completely different problems than cities and should have different representation than cities.

Over 1 Year ago
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

This election was either you hate trump or you love him. It wasn't a proper election because there was only one man in the race. And the Democrats had 4 years to select someone who can be a good President and Biden can't. He's not mentally capable. America will be a pushover at best, and a corrupt inheritance state at worst.

Over 1 Year ago
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

So they could have picked someone a little more centrist

From my perspective the problem was that he was already too "centrist" but the media made him out to some far-left communist or whatever for whatever reason. Anything that might have vocally "changed his mind about" was likely to appease to the left and nothing else or the most part. I mean I'm sure he'll give some kind of concessions but Biden is about as a "centrist" as you're going to get. In fact I'd call him at least right leaning.

The Democrats only care about the cities and there are more people in cities than in rural areas so basically people in rural areas are slaves to the majority

I mean I don't really think they even care all that much about cities either just like I don't think republicans care much about rural areas in reality but.

But I mean I agree that dem voters could have and should have chosen a better candidate. Just not for the same reasons.

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

The common thread between the two is that neither neoliberals nor Trumpists seem to have any faith in the idea that their fellow Americans can actually make their own independent choices.


Exactly. I know a lot of people that voted either way (or third-party) this year of their own free will and based on their own reasoning.

The polls were never wrong about who was more popular overall.


They were definitely wrong about Biden having a 10-20 point lead though, which is what all of them said in the weeks and months up to the election.

Over 1 Year ago
Xhin
Sky's the limit

I for one am very, very proud of America! First for turning out at the greatest numbers in American vote. Second for the broad and diverse coalition of voters – people of color, independents, leftists, moderates and never-Trump Republicans – who finally got the chance to oust Trump from office. And third for the poll workers who must have been under a lot of pressure this week. It was a big question mark whether they would be able to do their jobs without being interrupted or even attacked.

There's still a lot of uncertainty going forward, but we knew there would be even when we more or less had the polls telling us there would be a blow-out.

And on that note – the polls. They were wrong. Again! This poses a huge, huge problem for Democrats. Researchers will have to try really hard and think creatively to figure out what the problem is. It may have to do with the "shy trump voter" damn-you-political-correctness meme we've all heard before.

There might be a significant amount of people who just lack trust in polls and never respond to polls conducted online or on the phone, and this lack of trust in institutions is mostly found in Trump supporters.

This was also evidence in the Senate races, in North Carolina and Maine specifically. But then in places like Arizona and Colorado, the polls were pretty spot-on. It's a head-scratcher.

Over 1 Year ago
Agis

Yo voy a votar, ¡Por Donald Trump!

Over 1 Year ago
Brandy

I pretty much agree with Xhin.

Over 1 Year ago
tnu

who finally got the chance to oust Trump from office.

Ya at least he's out of office. I'm mad about Biden but that doesn't mean I don't prefer him to Trump for sure. Hopefully the optimists are right and we do eventually go up from here rather than down. I don't regret my choice to vote for a third party though.
Yo voy a votar, ¡Por Donald Trump!

What?

Over 1 Year ago
Grey Echelon

It’s an ad that used to run on T.V called ‘Por Trump’

Over 1 Year ago
Brandy

And on that note – the polls. They were wrong. Again! This poses a huge, huge problem for Democrats. Researchers will have to try really hard and think creatively to figure out what the problem is. It may have to do with the "shy trump voter" damn-you-political-correctness meme we've all heard before.

As someone who has only ever been polled once, on the street, by the BBC, I think it's probably the shy-Trump effect. There was no way in hell I was ever going to admit being pro-leave in public in London in broad daylight. I would be more inclined to be honest over the phone to a stranger, but I'm sure there are plenty others who wouldn't.

Either way, we know now that polls hugely underestimate conservative support for pretty much anything. I think that should bring up bigger questions of what sort of society we are living in when half the population are unwilling to honestly voice their views.

Over 1 Year ago
Smiling Apple

I think it's probably the shy-Trump effect.

Agreed. If you subtract 5 or so points from all of Biden's leads, it puts many of them within the margin of error and actually gives some states to Trump and provides a more accurate picture. Trump outperforms polls, it's undeniable. Thing is, outperforming wasn't enough this time.

Over 1 Year ago
pacman

And on that note – the polls. They were wrong. Again! This poses a huge, huge problem for Democrats. Researchers will have to try really hard and think creatively to figure out what the problem is.


Well my theory there is several things:

  • Shy-trump effect is real. Been saying this for years.

  • Media that have a vested interest in seeing trump be made a fool of are going to latch onto polls that help confirm that narrative. Confirmation bias basically.

  • Polls don't really predict how people will actually vote when it comes down to it -- For example, I know several people that supported Biden (for the anti-trump vote) right up until the end and just couldn't go through with it.

  • Over 1 Year ago
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Polls going forward are going to be less use than they used to be.
    National polls have continued to be pretty accurate within their claimed confidence intervals.
    However to predict electoral college outcomes you need accurate state polls.
    And with changes in communication culture it has been getting harder and harder to get truly random samples in 50 state and 6 district polls (3 Nebraska 2 Maine 1 DC).
    Some of the needed corrections in technique from 2016 weren’t taken in some states in 2020. Some in fact are probably impossible in some states, in 2020 and 2022 and 2024. And it’s quite possible there are new problems in 2020 that weren’t noticed in 2016 and 2018; the fact that Hispanics aren’t really just one voting-bloc, for instance, who won’t act the same from state to state, nor even uniformly within one state.

    Media are interested in keeping people listening and watching. So they are very interested in any predictions they make being accurate. But at the same time they want to make predictions even if the professional pollsters say their polls aren’t good for that.
    That did happen in 2020. The pollsters said their polls weren’t suitable as bases for predictions; but the media went ahead and predicted anyway.

    Quality of state-level and district-level polling is very patchy.

    Over 1 Year ago
    eldin raigmore
     

    Re-reading this it’s clear there were already many Trump supporters here on our board who, even before the polls closed, were already certain that any result other than a win for Trump would have had to be fraud.

    6 Months ago
    eldin raigmore
     

    Pretty much.

    Also re-reading this, I'm just like, what? We're really arguing the "Shy Trump Supporter" for the 2020 election? Who the *fuck* was a shy Trump supporter? I live in a pretty liberal state - one of the most liberal, even - and while I'm sure there are some who don't go out of their way to tell you they're a Trump supporter, there are a *ton* who literally turn their whole properties into a shrine.

    Who the *hell* is a "Shy Trump Supporter" in 2020? I've never met a Trump supporter who won't shut the fuck up about it in 2020. Maaaaybe in 2016, I get that argument. But to argue people are still kinda shy about supporting him in 2020 is fucking wild.

    6 Months ago
    Jet Presto

    Who the *hell* is a "Shy Trump Supporter" in 2020?


    I think that term only works in specific contexts -- like I knew a few people in the IT field that supported trump but kept that opinion to themselves while at work / corporate / any situation where people were overwhelmingly against him. Idk how that kind of thing would manifest itself on polls, since those tend to be anonymous.

    2020 was also a weird year that created paranoia on a scale not seen for hundreds of years (most of which I blame on the media -- not just MSM or chinese-based fake news but all of it is equally culpable). It's plausible that some trump supporters may have "gone into hiding", for lack of a better term.

    6 Months ago
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    This thread is archived